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The Gang of Four played
Friars twice in 1978/1979 and enthused with their style and lyrics.
Banned by the BBC twice, they are still relevant today.
We spoke to Andy Gill in
August 2010.
Friars Aylesbury Website:
Andy, welcome to the Friars Aylesbury website! Actually I know you met
David Stopps again relatively recently didn't you?
Yes, at a recording of Later with Jools Holland. We got chatting and it
brought back good memories of playing at Friars.
Your first appearance at
Friars was in 1978 supporting Penetration around the Damaged Goods
period. I don't think I can ask you to remember the specific gig, but
the band was on the rise, so this must have been an interesting time for
you?
Actually, I do vaguely remember it (the
gig) and playing with Penetration on a few occasions and I do remember
Friars. Friars was a good gig in that it wasn't your standard little
club and it wasn't a sit down theatre, it was somewhere between the two.
It was a nice space and kind of wide which is always good rather than
being long and deep like a cinema. We felt that was good from our point
of view as you could reach the audience. Whereas, playing a place that's
long and deep, it's hard to reach those at the back in a way. It's
easier with the Friars set up as you can reach everyone. It had a great
ambience and we loved playing there.
Many artists have said
that there was something special about playing Friars. It wasn't too far
from London, journalists could easily get out here and take notice of
what was going on. You headlined at Friars in November 1979, A gig I
remember very well. Entertainment was out by then, so this must have
been a good et of gigs round this time with the band getting noticed. At
this time of course, it wasn't easy for 'alternative' bands to break the
charts and get noticed. So the reaction must have been great....
Well, it was certainly a different world to what we have now. It was
like a musical apartheid. It was difficult to get your music played
because there were so few outlets (then). So you had John Peel.....
....and not much else! To
get noticed, aside from Peel there was little on TV aside from the
Whistle Test and a couple of other things like So It Goes and Revolver.
But then in saying that, there was the famous incident with Top of the
Pops wasn't there (where Gang of Four were asked to change the "rubbers"
reference in At Home He's a Tourist and refused)?
Do you ever look back on
this and think what might have happened or do you still stand by what
you did at that time?
I
think at the time....we thought yes if you do TOTP, we know certain
things could follow on from that and we know it now, but I think....you
feel you have to draw a line and be true to yourself. It was like that
really. The thing about the Gang of Four was that we weren't any old
band in it for having a laugh, that was never quite Gang of Four. Of
course if you could have a laugh and make some bucks and be artistically
valid, then great and I am sure wouldn't have done it for five minutes
if we weren't having a laugh or a lot of fun. The lyrics we talked about
and the artwork and everything we did, we did instruct a kind a
methodology that we would have torn up if [we had let] the producers
TOTP talk us into singing any old nonsense.
The bizarre thing is that
the lyric the BBC got themselves into a lather about...nobody would have
batted an eyelid five years later would they?
That's right. Gang of Four are nothing if
not prescient. We were talking about contraception. Now that was
responsible! We got our wrists slapped and told to go home!
One of the things about
the Gang of Four...I've never really understood musical "tags"..the Gang
of Four have been described as 'radical', 'minimalist', 'post-punk' etc.
I can understand the minimalist thing to a degree - what did you see
your influences as? For example, I can hear influences of the likes of
Television in some stuff.
All those terms in varying degrees are applicable but it does get silly
when people try to call you one thing...I suppose the post-punk thing is
the one that sticks the most. We have some relationship with punk. But
then people call Joy Division post-punk. When we were writing songs, we
were not interested in being another three chord Clash style punk band.
The most obvious thing that differentiates us from other bands at the
time....I hated it when bands filled every space, we stripped it down a
lot. We had a rhythmic funk that other bands didn't. Jon (King) and I
were into disco and if you said that at the time, people would say
"that's horrible".
You mention the disco
influences.....and you are considered quite influential in the post punk
movement, whatever that is supposed to mean. How do you see that? Today
for example, bands such as Rage Against The Machine and the Red Hot
Chili Peppers cite Gang of Four as amongst their influences. Must be a
great compliment in many ways?
Yes it's a compliment. So many bands have said things like that, be it
U2 or REM or Rage Against The Machine and bands from that era and much
more recently bands like Bloc Party and Franz Ferdinand, even the Kaiser
Chiefs. You kind of hear it everywhere - it's become part of a style or
flavour. Especially the guitar ...not some of my more extreme moments
but the funkiness and sound about it.
Talking of one of your
more extreme moments....Anthrax....that's a little different starting
with two minutes of feedback with a spoken vocal over the melody line.
What was the influence or thinking behind that?
Hendrix has always been one of my favourite guitarists and there's no
doubt that's a homage to Hendrix if you like with all the feedback. What
we did conceptually was Jon and I sat down with a piece of paper and we
drew a timeline....so the bass would come in and I would do a
commentary. We were very much into the idea of one voice or character
doing one thing, then another voice or character doing a commentary on
that first one. That happened to various degrees. A bit of a theatrical
idea in that different people did different roles. On stage, we wanted
it to be a bit of theatre, kind of get people involved in thinking what
was going on and would appreciate it rather than going on and doing a
song. It's like Jimi Hendrix but in a different context. And a hypnotic
and funky bass part and more feedback. It grabs people for some
reason....
That's cos it's good!
Musically, the stuff you have done has been striking, but lyrically,
there's always been a high level of political and social comment in what
Gang of Four have done, but going back again, you were quite unlucky
with this one when you got nobbled by the BBC again for I Love A Man In
A Uniform because of the Falklands conflict.
I
think Gang of Four have been banned more than the Sex Pistols!
I can understand people's
reactions to the Sex Pistols at that time, but this was a little bit
different....
At
that time, I knew various people who worked at the BBC including Gang of
Four's ex manager, Rod Wall, and he showed me the memo that went round
the BBC that said basically "we are expecting casualties in the
Falklands and it would not be appropriate to play this song by the Gang
of Four." There is no question that people got the idea that there was
something critical about the song despite the fact it is a funky pop
song and quite layered and spoke in code. But the clever boys and girls
at the BBC knew we were up to something......
Yes, the same reason
"Shipbuilding" (Elvis Costello/Robert Wyatt) got banned.
A bit of a leap here. The
Gang of Four stopped in 1984 and came back in 2004. In that time though,
you carved out a successful career as a producer with it must be said
some top drawer acts such as the Chili Peppers and Killing Joke. Of all
the production work, is there, aside from Gang of Four stuff, an artist
or album your most proud of?
I
am very proud of the album of the solo album I did with Michael
Hutchence. That's a long story though. I am very proud of it, I co-wrote
the whole thing with Michael.
The Killing Joke album [I did] sound wise is extraordinary. It very much
helped having Dave Grohl playing in it who is the best drummer in the
world.
That helps! Am I right in
saying that either you or Killing Joke asked Dave Grohl to play and he
agreed if he could do the whole album?
Basically yes. I did a couple of the tracks with System Of A Down's
drummer and it didn't really work. At that point Dave Grohl said he'd
like to do it as it was great. We (I was the co-writer) wrote all of
those songs in my studio starting with me programming a drum beat and
Youth and Geordie would play on top of them. Then Jaz Coleman would get
involved. It took ages, but we built up the tracks like that. Then we
knew the drum programming needed a great drummer. In LA, Dave Grohl said
that the drum patterns were great and he would make it 'live'. It was
great. When I say Dave Grohl is the best drummer in the world, I don't
really mean that...I mean Dave Grohl and Mark Heaney, drummer of Gang of
Four as well!
I'll make sure that's very
very clear!
We
record we have just finished, which is coming out in January (and called
'Contact'), Mark has
done some really sparkling drumming on it. He's brilliant.
To round things off, I was
going to ask about the current and future plans for the Gang of Four. We
know the album is out in January.
We
are doing a few dates in the Autumn. We will be playing live a lot next
year round the album. A couple of weeks in Australia, as couple of weeks
in the States and there will be a lot of playing next year.
You did Glastonbury this
year, how did that go?
Very well actually, but not the perfect time to go on stage, two or
three hours after England fell out of the World Cup...! The audience was
great and we were pretty good!
Andy, thanks very much for
your time
Cheers!
Gang of Four official site
This interview and its
content are © 2010 Mike O'Connor/www.aylesburyfriars.co.uk and may not
be used in whole or in part without permission.
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