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John is one of the unsung people in the Friars story and many punters
will not realise the important role he played. As Operations Manager of
both the Borough Assembly Hall and the Civic Centre, John was at nearly
every gig from 1971 onwards in an official capacity. John acted as the
conduit between Friars and Aylesbury Borough Council/Aylesbury Vale
District Council and has some great memories of Aylesbury and of Friars.
John took his well earned retirement in 2008, but was tempted out of
retirement to stage manage the Friars 40th Anniversary Party in June
2009 and will be again in October when Stiff Little Fingers come back.
The website interviewed John rather appropriately in the Civic Centre
coffee lounge outside the Maxwell Hall. Thanks again John.
Friars Aylesbury Website: John, thanks for talking to us. As I mentioned
on the website, not everyone will have recognised the significant role
you played as the Operations Manager of both the Borough Assembly Hall
and the Civic Centre all the way through both Phase Two and Phase Three
periods.
As for
the significance of my role....both venues were local authority
controlled and my job was the link between the promoters and the
council. I saw my role as trying to keep things smooth. I started in the
late 1960s and the guys running the civic theatres back then were
generally people who had come, off the boards, been in variety and
worked in 'normal' theatres. They had dealt with the early rock and
rollers who came via what was known as package tours. Even The Beatles
and their contemporaries worked this format; 3 or 4 support acts doing
about 10 minutes each, the headliners closing with a twenty to thirty
minute set. No PA was carried, vocals generally went through the house
system and instrumentation through their own amps.....Vox AC 30s were
posh. The whole thing, at least stage side, was easy.
By the
time the new wave of civic type theatres came along in the late
1960s/early 1970, promoters started to emerge from the hippy and
festivals era and the package tours had gone. So there were one off
bands being promoted which was totally alien to the theatre managers of
the time. Typically in Aylesbury, whilst the older managers were OK
people... they didn't understand the change. One Entertainments Manager
(who cannot be named) couldn't work with Friars. He couldn't understand
why they wanted this or that. So it became that I got involved, and did
so every gig.
What was so different that he couldn't deal with it?
As I
said, in the old days, they used the house PA. Whether it was Billy
Fury, The Shadows or The Beatles. There wasn't a lot of worry. But then
as things progressed there were these huge speakers (that got toured)
and road crew putting them on tables and theatre managers saying you
can't do that! What about the floor! They couldn't relate to what was
happening. My experience of working the theatres in Bournemouth helped
me see how things were developing and I like to think that I helped by
arbitrating some what. David (Stopps) and I had a very good
relationship. David would book 26 Saturdays each year and I always
encouraged everybody artist wise. If we could have got The Sex Pistols,
I would have welcomed it. Every other council was banning them. There
was nothing Friars couldn't have handled.
That
first punk gig at Friars, with the Stranglers was quite difficult but we
went with it.
That was a weird gig as they ended up headlining after Deaf School
pulled out. Didn't the London punks make their presence known?
Certainly. The junior security were on the doors to the Maxwell Hall
with the intention of stopping people taking glasses into the hall (it
was not permitted back then) and as soon as The Stranglers came on, they
all seemed to pogo past security with glasses in hand. We were quite
taken aback by that.
Nothing like that had happened before?
The
junior guys would stop people with glasses and usually punters would
just say 'sorry, I didn't realise' but this was a little different.
So back to the theatre managers - they just couldn't deal with PAs,
lights and trucks?
It was
radically different. The early crews were more 'heavies' than roadies
who could pick up a bass speaker and throw it on the stage. There wasn't
the technical ability there is now and the attitude was 'we are running
that cable there' and I would be 'no you're not, people will trip over
it' These days, the crews are telling you what to do, they're all
Health and Safety conscious. But if you take a theatre guy towards the
end of his career and these big rough Glaswegian roadies stomping on his
dancefloor......You couldn't talk to these people in any authoritarian
manner as they would just say 'bollocks, who the fuck are you?!'
Back in
the Friars days, my role was to make everything friendly, work for
Friars but also representing the local authority and I feel I did that
bit. It got to the point that the elected councillors were totally
supportive of Friars. Initially, as the Civic was being planned, they
were wary of young people and could only envisage the place being full
of ladies in ball gowns waltzing around the hall.
Funny you mention that as one of the cuttings on the website from before
the Civic opened suggested that the council would run the shows put on
at the venue and didn't intend giving the likes of David or the
wrestling promoter a chance.
My view
was that we were a multi purpose venue that needed to accommodate
everyone. It's not a normal theatre. It started to move that way and it
had to. Friars was such an earner on the bars. All three bars at full
tilt all night.
And money in to the council's coffers...
Yes,
there was no percentage going to Friars. We knew the bars would work
from the way Friars worked at the Assembly Hall. The Civic bars were
bigger but we still always got complaints. But the bar in the corner at
the Assembly Hall was horrendous. Trying to get barrels in...once you
were behind the bar, you were penned in by hundreds of people.
The bars at the Civic always took a kicking in the annual Friars poll!
Even
the Farmers Ball people would complain. It was not to do with a lack of
staff - if you had too many, they would fall over each other and
couldn't get to the tills. The bars would have better shaped differently
from the start. Long or L shaped so that you might only be two from the
front rather than sixteen deep. But it compares well to many theatres
such as the Oxford New Theatre which has an horrendous bar.
I have to say I made good use of the bar facilities on June 1st which
made going up on stage four times less of an ordeal! God bless Stella
Artois!
I've
never liked going up on stage and when I did, it was after a brandy or
two! I'm glad David always went on stage. I did go up on stage in 1976
when we presented Sailor with a bottle of champagne to commemorate the
Glass of Champagne hit single (picture on that gig page)
You'll have seen the Geoffrey Tyrell pictures from some classic gigs and
there will be some more going up soon. It's great we can preserve these
for the future. You're doing a similar thing aren't you - you're a world
authority on Gene Vincent.
When it
comes to box sets, CDs etc, people come to me for material and advice.
But there's people out there with loads of stuff on Gene and they won't
give access to any of it. Some of these people are even older than me
and what are they going to do with it? Gene Vincent is a small market
now so what's to gain by hanging on to it? I have a collective of Gene
Vincent mates and we share anything new between us. It's like the Friars
website, this stuff should be available to all and be there after our
lifetimes, as part of rock n roll heritage.
It
would be nice ultimately if we had some museum of rock to safeguard all
this stuff after we have gone.
Mind
you, the (Friars) website is getting me into a lot of trouble. I intend
spending a couple of minutes on it and then......
You're not the only one to say that! Jake Burns commented recently that
it was a trip down memory lane!
So tell us a bit more about your role at Friars...
It
wasn't so much about stage managing (like June 1st this year), but to
smooth over any difficulties. My input wasn't that great. David did the
work but there were occasions when... shall we say ...people had to be
asked to do what they were paid to do.....
I am aware of two occasions certainly regards artists.....! I know you
had to step in and for legal reasons it's probably best we don't name
the artists concerned....You had words with one artist after they
appeared to allow people onto the stage when you had expressly told them
not to...
Yes,
words were had. We had all warned them not to do it because they had a
reputation for it. They said they wouldn't do it and they did. I went to
the dressing room and was stopped by a huge security guy from physically
entering but I barged through and I told them they would never play
Aylesbury again. I was told to fuck off, but they never forgot about it!
There was also another act, the singer was verbally abused in the Market
Square and he allegedly refused to go on stage. I remember that gig and
seem to remember the doors opening late and a delay...the reasons were
never known at the time..
He
didn't want to go on because of these 'bad vibes in the town' and David
needed to move the position from where he might go on to where he will
go on. He was trying to do this gently and I eventually went to the
dressing rooms....
I
grabbed him and advised him that he had chosen his career and downstairs
there were 1250 people waiting for him, how about doing the job that he
had chosen to do.
I don't
think David knows that bit.....so hopefully he won't be offended!
I have it on good authority you pinned him to the wall!
Ha ha!
I was younger then! I'm not sure if it was even me that ultimately
persuaded him but David was saying, 'He's going to go on' and I was (in
a surprised tone), 'Oh, is he really?'!!
There
was a third occasion and that was The Damned who I know won't mind me
mentioning them. They thought Friars was this old hippy venue and they
would drag their feet about going on. I got on well with Ratty (Scabies)
and I would say, 'For goodness sake, you're an hour late...and we're
getting a bit peed off!' 'Oh alright as it's you!' Having a reputation
as a hippy venue was rubbish as we moved with the times. By the time The
Damned played there was a real variety.
I know someone who was at that gig and didn't the house lights come on
at midnight when they were still playing?
Yes,
that is true. But great fun and great memories.
What about the Borough Assembly Hall?
I had
more problems with the bar and revellers than the bands. It was much
different when we moved here to the Civic.
So when you started working here in Aylesbury, the Borough Assembly Hall
must still have been The Grosvenor?
It was
before it got renamed when the council took it over. I moved up here
from Bournemouth Winter Gardens and got a job in the bar and then the
position of Entertainments Manager came up and I got that. I had been
odd jobbing in London theatres prior to landing this job. It had been
the Market Theatre, then the Grosvenor, then the Borough Assembly Hall.
One of the reasons for the change of name was that the Grosvenor had a
bad reputation?
Saturday night was fight night!
The walkway to the front of the Assembly Hall is still there!
As a
venue it wasn't too bad as the load in was at the back of the hall,
straight on to centre stage from some huge double doors in Long Lionel.
It is said that on a summer's night a drummer leant back and went
through the doors into the street! It's partly still there - the walkway
where the Post Office is.
When I
moved to Aylesbury, there was a vibrant scene at the BAH, these American
blues acts on Tuesdays. Little Walter, John Lee Hooker. On Saturday, the
promoter Eddie Friday would put on the likes of Johnny Kidd, The
Swinging Blue Jeans and even my hero Gene Vincent. Another promoter
would put on the likes of Cream, Jimi Hendrix and Lee Dorsey...so many
great bands for a small market town. Cream....that was when Clapton had
just got an afro haircut, Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker spent the whole
gig staring at him and laughing. They nailed Ginger's kit to the stage!
Them with Van Morrison as well. I was just a punter then though.
Would you agree that as Friars came to the Borough Assembly Hall and
onwards and upwards, that people saw Friars as an event and not a gig?
Yes,
there must have been 300-400 who would go regardless of who was on. The
product had to be there, but there was a hardcore. I also remember some
Americans coming from an air base and turning up one evening thinking
there must be something on at Friars, they had heard so much about it,
they thought it was like the Marquee where there was always something
on. They were surprised to be turned away and told that it was every
other Saturday night!
But then with people coming to every gig regardless you saw people you
wouldn't expect to see....like punks at Kate and Anna McGarrigle!
Yes!
What about the Iggy Pop gig in 1977 and the return of Bowie. He was
quite anonymous wasn't he?
Very
anonymous. He was sitting where we are now and chatting to me, David and
Needsy. He was a nice guy. We weren't allowed to announce he was on.
David Stopps has said that the crowd started to shift across the hall
when they realised who was on keyboards...
Yes
they did, I remember that. It was an amazing gig. During the sound
check, Iggy came and sat next to me on a flight case and had a natter.
What a memory that is!
Were there ever occasions where you had to cause to recommend to the
council that an act didn't play?
No, but
if David had ever mentioned about one of the acts we talked about
earlier playing again, I would have said no. There is a book about that
band and they mention Friars and the promoter having a go at them. But
that was me, not David! But I was really really angry as someone could
have been injured at that gig. The speaker stacks started wobbling.
I was at that gig and I was truly disappointed. They were not fun.
There
was a problem when Sham 69 played and there was a bit of a punch up and
Jimmy Pursey was so upset. But they had this terrible reputation which
seemed to grow.
I know it gave David a sleepless night beforehand...
It was
a worry, but nobody had his finger on the pulse like David. I remember
the last year (of Friars) when in the age of video coming, bands weren't
playing as much and he put his hands up and said he couldn't do it any
more. Some people have suggested that (the success of) Howard (Jones)
was the reason but that's not true. It simply that the product wasn't
there for a venue of this size and times were changing. No-one tried
harder than David to keep Friars going. He still booked the 26 Saturdays
and we still had to charge him whether anybody played or not as we often
couldn't re-hire it out. If he could have got the bands, he would have
done.
It was a tragedy. 1983-1984 had seen bigger gaps with the gigs but that
last five or six in 1984 sold out. Seems the last straw came when a band
pulled out (the gig hadn't been announced) to earn more money elsewhere.
After
Friars, there were still some gigs. I put Steve Harley on and I put Dr
Feelgood on every year. Also the original Drifters, a soul night with
Junior Walker, Arthur Lee, Canned Heat....
From an organisational view, there must have been a few interesting
situations, for example having to remove bits of the ceiling to
accommodate The Police's rig at the surprise gig in 1982?
Well, I
was told what was required, so we dealt with it, including getting the
trucks in.
That always fascinated me as the side of the Civic is narrow to reverse
and get a truck round.
We've
had trucks take the pub sign off of The Six Grapes. The Genesis truck
managed to lean as it reversed the corner and hit the wall, removing
some bricks. Yet the Iggy Pop truck driver had a trailer as well and
reversed down at such speed, I was amazed. The tour buses often parked
adjacent to the kitchens. I recall The Ramones getting off the bus and
sraight into the kitchen area, I found them sitting on the floor,
carving ham off the bone with the chef's knife!
The Genesis one must have been fun with all the stage extensions....
Yes, at
they were all built on the day. Could be a pain sometimes.
I remember before The Pretty Things gig, David, myself and others were
given a tour backstage and we saw these door either side of what is now
a dance class area and were gobsmacked to discover the led to an
orchestra pit we didn't know existed!
It was
used once! But using it left the dance floor uneven afterwards and
having to prop things up with wood. It eventually became a storage area
until the Fire Officer intervened.....
I never knew it existed!
It was
a huge pit.
If push comes to shove, what are your best gigs at Friars?
Ian
Dury with the Clash doing Sweet Gene Vincent, Motorhead and their Bomber
rig...
I was injured by that! I was hit by shrapnel from pyrotechnics and had a
huge lump on the side of my head!
Commander Cody.....Widowmaker...Steve Ellis has such a great voice.
Procol Harum did two encores before doing 'Whiter Shade Of Pale', the
place erupted
I found the key to you answering my emails was to put Steve Ellis in the
title like the time he did Tracks of My Years on Radio 2!!!
Asylum,
I used to enjoy them, a great act. Like Sailor had a harbour/quayside
backdrop and set, they had a living room kind of set up.
Ian
Dury and I always got on because of the Gene Vincent connection. But way
back when he played Friars with Kilburn and The High Roads, I thought
there's a bit of Gene Vincent here and in Upminster Kid he mentions Gene
Vincent Craddock which was Gene's real name. So I asked him if he was a
Gene Vincent fan and we got on. I was a huge Clash fan as well. We used
to have Country music nights here. There was a great country band called
Tom Gribben and the Saltwater Cowboys and they did a cover of 'Guns of
Brixton' on one of their albums. It was round tables and a cabaret type
set up and The Clash turned up to see them, it was brilliant, they were
stood at the back. We were all backstage afterwards and it was great,
Gribben was knocked out. He was one of the first country acts to bridge
rock and country!
The
Clash at Stoke Mandeville Stadium was fun, but I had nothing to do with
that.
One of my favourite gigs ever, but a logistical nightmare.
Apart
from the Friars stage going up there, that was nothing to do with me! I
just enjoyed it!
I saw you talking on the Bucks TV documentary about being able to relax
with a pint at Friars on June 1st, something you couldn't do in the old
days!
You
couldn't really, in the very early days David and I could have bought
each other a drink at the bar, but this became not the thing to do as
you were at work .
That
June 1st gig, I couldn't' believe how the atmosphere came back, it was
like it never went away.
Everyone wanted to make it work. It was nothing to do with us, it was
the people. Only problem from my point of view is that all the bands
were supposed to share a drum kit but they all brought their own kits,
but they all got miked up properly and no-one noticed the joins!
I really enjoyed that gig and after the gig the Pretty Things were
really great.
I
remember Kid Creole and The Coconuts first appearance and they had such
an amazing after show party, that I won't forget it. There was never any
standoffishness after gigs. Backstage was great. The rider was always
met and Robin (Pike) would put flowers in the dressing rooms. It was
part of the reputation and the bands were always made so welcome.
Artists have said to me about the flowers and the difference it made.
It's
not that luxurious backstage, but bands were made so welcome and at the
June 1st gig, Robin did the flowers again.
It was a great night and to be involved in it not as a punter was
incredible.
You're
one of the people now!
Scary! John, I really appreciate your time. Pleased you're enjoying your
well earned retirement.
Pleasure!
This interview and its content are © 2010 Mike
O'Connor/www.aylesburyfriars.co.uk and may not be used in whole or in
part without permission.
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